Transforming Pain into Purpose: Kate Conwell's Journey Beyond Betrayal

Hey guys and welcome back. Today I have Kate Conwell. Kate, honestly it's amazing to have you. I've been looking forward to this interview for quite some time. Yeah, go ahead and just let us know a little bit about who you are, what you do, your story. I know we're all excited.

Hey, thanks so much for having me. I am Kate Conwell, like you said, and I am the founder of Journey Beyond Betrayal, which supports women in the aftermath of marital infidelity. So that is a piece of my story that we'll get into a little bit more. And I've been doing that for the last like year and a half. So it's kind of a newer...

venture for me before that. I was, um, stay at home mom slash supported my husband in his business and also a personal trainer. I have an athletic background. I've been an athlete since I was, I don't know, three competed all the way through college and post collegiately at the Olympic trials a couple times as a pole vaulter. So we have a very active family. I have.

two boys and live outside of Dallas, Texas. So that's just the basics about me.

Awesome. Well, thanks, Kate. So let's kind of just jump right into it, right? So can you share the inspiration behind, you know, founding Journey Beyond Betrayal and how your personal experience became really the catalyst of empowering other women in similar situations?

Yeah, so like I mentioned, that happened in our marriage. So we've been married 16 years now and about five years into our marriage, I discovered that my husband had been unfaithful. And so we journeyed through that. Like he immediately was like wanting to save the marriage. And then I kind of had to work to get to that place. And we were supported by other people through that.

healing process and as the couple that really walked through it with us was like, you know, if you want this to be used, like God can use this to help other people and other marriages and they kind of like spoke that over us. And so it was always kind of in the back of our mind to support marriages and we have done that in a couple different ways. And we always were.

We weren't like shouting our story from the rooftops or putting it on social media like I am now, but you know, as it was relevant, we would share that with people and were able to walk with couples. My husband has been leading. He joined a men's group to kind of work as part of his healing and to get accountability for keeping on track with his healing. So he's been leading men, you know, probably for the last eight or nine years.

And then I had kind of been like, once my kids went to school, like I was, I wanted to stay at home or at least be available, you know, when, when they were younger for the most part. So I kind of had my own thing with the personal training. It's very flexible. I could do it whenever and then could be with them. But once they were in school, like, you know, full time, um, a few years ago.

I was kind of like, okay, what do I do now? Now I have these eight hours a day or seven hours a day that I'm not, doesn't have a lot of stuff going on. Do I try to do more personal training? That was never really my plan. My degree is in business. The personal training kind of happened out of necessity to support myself while I was training for the Olympic trials. I really started praying.

Pursuing different what could I do that would still allow me to be available with my kids and that was like 2019 fall of 2019 and In the midst of that my husband kind of was like well, why don't you just come help me with my business? So I started doing that This is kind of a roundabout answer all to say like sometimes You don't really like the steps that you take aren't logical

So then I started helping him in his business. And I just, I mean, I was doing it, it was great. And it was actually really great because, you know, fast forward four months from that, and then it's COVID. And so I was able to stay in the home and they, like we lived in Portland at that time. So my kids were home for a year basically, you know? And so I had, I could still work in the house, essentially it was like, oh, my kids finally out of the house. Oh wait, they're not out of the house anymore.

Um, and so I, we moved to Texas in 2021 and I kind of asked those questions again, like, what am I supposed to be doing? What's my purpose? Where am I supposed to be? And it wasn't another, you know, it was another probably nine, six to nine months until I was in a, in a, in a community trying to create an online community. And they say like, what have you learned? What have you lived? What have you loved? And I thought.

I'll do something around fitness. This has been what I've done." I really felt like God just was like, nope, you're going to help women with this thing. You've lived through the worst. This is the worst pain in my life when my husband was unfaithful. You're going to support other women who have been through that because I had friends and great support, but not anyone who really understood it. I know there's so many women that don't talk about it and they don't share it with anyone.

or they share it with a few people and he's like, but that person doesn't get it. And so just this concept of creating a safe place where women could be together and it's online. So there's, it's not anonymous, but you know, it's all over the country, all over the world, actually we have a couple members in different countries. And so it gives them a safe, confidential place to process through. And so that was

the long answer to how this all came to be. It was like all these different steps and waiting for like, well, what do I do? And keep continuing to ask that question and try different things. And now I'm like, oh my gosh, I love what I do. Like this was what it was all along. It was just the timing had to be right.

Yeah, I mean, especially to it sounds like that time right between 2019, like kind of like COVID time even to like, you know, you just moved in 2021. I know I moved to Texas in 2021 and as soon as I got there in January, like we had that huge blizzard, right? Like right in February. So I don't know if you had to deal with that. And then all of this kind of happens, but right.

Right. So kind of coming.

Yeah, we missed that. We, I visited in January and then we came back in March, but yeah, go ahead.

So, right, so reflecting on your own journey, what were the transformative moments that propelled you from the pain of infidelity to a place of strength and resilience?

Yeah, I think when you've been through this or you've been through anything really painful, it's as you're working through it, it's like there's this desire to like, want to pull someone back like, okay, I've been there and like kind of help pull people back or point them forward because after you've walked through it, you're like, okay, there is hope.

Like you can get to the other side of this, whereas when you're in the middle of it, it feels so hopeless and you feel like it's never gonna end and your life is over and this will define your life forever. And so I think when I got to the other side of it, I was always just willing to like share. And some people would say like, oh, you guys have this great marriage. And I'm like, yeah, let me tell you this story, right? Like, this is how we, like we've been through some stuff to get.

where we are. And so using it as more of like a general encouragement for people in marriage because it's like sometimes you look at people and think they have this great thing and you don't know the back the backstory of it all. So just being able to use my story to help others was a big motivation because if you've been through something terrible like you want something good to come of it and think when you are willing to let it go, God can do that. And so

that general like kind of concept was there and then just when we had walked through this with other people like um it wasn't like a draining thing it was actually like I felt filled up by supporting other people and so I think when you can do something that should drain all the energy from you but it actually gives you energy um

that is a sign that you're on the right track to do what God calls you to do. And they say if you'll do something for free, you love it so much, you do it for free. And we had already been doing it for free before. So I think walking through it and having my experience and knowing there's women out there that don't have any support and then also seeing the energy that it brought me to help other people kind of just...

And made me, when I felt like it was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. It all made sense. There were so many pieces along the way where I could look back when I decided to do it and be like, oh, that's why that happened. Oh, that. And I guess some of those moments were just like the walking through and also just, I mean, the small things that I've done that aren't directly connected to this, but just experiences that I had that helped equip me to do what I'm doing.

relationships, you know, business opportunities or jobs that I had that prepared me well to do all of all of this, not just the connection with women.

Right. So I'm also curious though, like, let's dive a little deeper. Like what, what were some transformative moments like that, that were happening as you, as you were walking through it, right?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so in the midst of the pain before I knew I would be doing this, I think there's some moments where you kind of just have to surrender to what you're feeling. I really am very type A personality, very driven and kind of was like, you can do it. No, whatever you set your mind to, you can do it. And that...

works really well when you're the only person involved in a scenario, but it does not work when you're trying to control somebody else. So I think that was a huge kind of realization or moment where it was like, I can't actually fix this. You know, like there's not any amount of work that I can do on my own that will fix my marriage. And so letting go of the control.

of like, okay, I just have to surrender this and know that I can do everything in my power to heal my heart, which is what I help women do is like, you have control of you and like, you can try really hard and heal yourself but letting go of the idea that I could control the whole situation and just choosing to invest in what I did have control over which was my own healing. And so that surrender of like,

Oh man, I can't force him to want to be invested in this. I'm putting up boundaries, I'm asking for certain things to move forward in our marriage and I cannot force him to do this. So that was huge. And so that was one. And then I think just asking, like learning that I am more limited than I am.

would like to admit sometimes, you know, and really seeing myself and realizing like it's okay that I can't do all of this right now and letting go of expectations of myself because as I said, like that athlete type A personality to see, okay, I'm not functional. Like I can't function right now and that's okay, right? And learning to accept my limitations was another thing I had to do and let people help me.

I don't know that I could acknowledge that I was making, was asking for help in the moment, right? I was just, I had to, but looking back, I can see I really learned how to ask for help and let people help me because I was so unable to do things myself. I had a one-year-old son at the time, and so those were some kind of pivotal things like being able to ask. Just recognize that this was, like it was a huge.

pain and I was gonna need to alter my life in ways that I had not done that in the past because it was so significant.

Need help?

Mm-hmm.

Right. So actually you mentioned that there was this moment, right, where you kind of recognize that you couldn't do this all on your own, where, you know, you also have this really like a goal oriented, like driven mentality, right? Uh, was there any part of you that felt scared that maybe like your husband couldn't meet you in the middle?

Oh, absolutely. I think that's a common, that's a huge struggle for women, especially I see it now, you know, because it was literal, like it was a conscious, that was a conscious thought I had, you know, it's like I'm saying, okay, I need this from you if we're going to keep, we're going to move forward. And as saying that, you're saying, if it doesn't happen, you're like, my marriage is over. And so that's really, that was...

definitely a lot of fear around it. And I think that's some, some fear that women, that's why women won't do that because it's like, you're expecting or asking your husband to do something to show that he's committed and he doesn't do it, then you have to face the reality that he's not really committed, which in my head, I was like, well, I'd rather if he's not committed, then why would I continue in a marriage where he's actually not committed? So I'm going to give him an opportunity to show me the reality. Is he really committed or not? Because

I don't want to be in a marriage where he's not, I mean, he already had showed me he's not committed, but now he's saying, I do want to be committed. So giving him opportunities to show me that, but also opens up the opportunity and the door for him to say, actually, I'm not right. And that's super scary. And so you I had to like say things and then sit and wait and watch. And that was really a fear that like, there's a lot of fear in that because

You're like, I really hope you do this. I really hope that you, you know, show me that you can be committed and follow through on all these things. But it's, like I said, it's out of my control. So I'm just waiting. And that's a really uncomfortable place because you don't know and you don't want your marriage to end.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And I think, you know, there's so much power there for you. I mean, it is scary, but there's so much power there too, and you being vulnerable in this way, right? So on that, like, you know, obviously it plays a significant role in your healing. So how do you navigate and embrace vulnerability in both, you know, your personal journey, but, you know, as well as, you know, guiding other women through theirs.

Yeah, vulnerability is huge because it allows us to be known. And I think when you're in the midst of something this traumatic, you really need to be known in your pain and let other people see you in that. And it's so hard, right? Especially with something this big and there is some shame attached to it. And so I think I really just encourage like inside of the community, I really just encourage women to be honest and transparent and vulnerable and show up. However,

you are and so I try to model that I'm like look sometimes I'll come and like I have makeup on and I look like really put together and other times like I'm in my sweats and I just came I look like I just came from a workout and so just being transparent myself and kind of modeling like you don't have to pretend like you have it all together here you can just come and share honestly and openly and

modeling that for them. And so that's the way I do it with the women that I work with is just trying to show them from my perspective and then it creates an opportunity and that allows them to be more comfortable doing the same. And then, you know, on my own journey, I think I've always been pretty like not, you know, what you see is what you get is kind of obviously everybody kind of

I've been pretty vulnerable, not vulnerable, but like transparent. And so I guess there is a difference between transparency and vulnerability because vulnerability is saying like, this is messed up and do you still accept me for this? And so I think in the midst of it, I was just so broken. I couldn't even hide it that well. And so I...

I was, it was such an overwhelming emotion that I kind of just had to be, I wouldn't necessarily like pour it out on everybody, but it was like, I couldn't hide it either. So I would be like, how are you like, you know, yeah, it's not a great day, you know? And so just deciding like how much of that would be shared. And so I was just, I think because I grew up in a household where honesty was such an integral value, I was kind of already set up well to be.

authentic in other relationships. It's just, it's always been a value of mine. So it comes kind of naturally to me to just share authentically with people.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so you know you touched up on like, you know kind of embracing like this imperfection, right? And you know, it's a very important part of just personal development So in your own experience, how does embracing imperfections contribute to healing and you know? How do you also guide women in accepting themselves? Through these challenges

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, we all want to pretend like we're perfect, don't we? I think it's important to recognize, like, some people tend to focus on their imperfections and on their weaknesses. And so a lot of the work I do is trying to get people to recognize, like, what are your strengths? Because you're looking so much at, like, all these things that you don't like or you don't like.

you think aren't your best traits, but like on the flip side of that, like, what about all these other things that you're really good at? And what are these gifts that you've been given? And so you can't only focus on one side of that. You have to look at both sides of that. And so acknowledging like, it's okay if you're not good at everything. God gave each of us different gifts. And if you aren't good at like, I'm a terrible singer,

But I was a great pole vaulter. There's people that are great athletes and there's people that are great chefs. So everybody has something that they can – that is like the opposite of the imperfection. And so acknowledging both sides of it, like this is my weaknesses, this is my strengths though. And so how can I –

live inside of accepting both of those, I think, is a huge thing. It's like just the idea that it's okay if I'm not good at everything. I still really wrestle with that. Sometimes, it's like I try something new and my husband will be like, why did you think you would be able to do that or why do you think you should be good at that? You don't have any experience. I'm like, I just think I should be able to do anything I want.

You gotta try, yeah.

And so it's learning that balance of like, it's okay to accept yourself for who you are. And rather than focus only on the negatives, like also look at the flip side of that and see, you know, what are you actually really good at? I think we don't talk about that enough. We tend to focus on, especially as women and the women in the midst of this pain, see all the negative things because they feel like rejected and...

hurt and so yes, it's okay if you're not great at everything, but let's talk about the other side of that too.

Yeah, honestly, I love that strategy when it comes down to like empowering, you know, these heartbroken women, right? So do you have any key principles or other strategies that you really emphasize when, you know, to help them overcome shame, you know, build confidence and really recognize their inherent value?

Yeah, I mean, simply like it's easy to say, okay, well, let's look at what you're good at, right? And that's a great place to start, I think, just asking them, okay, well, what are you good at? Like, what strengths do you have? And writing those down is important, but then really starting to dig a little bit deeper, like that's kind of the top level, right? Because you can know you're good at something and then you can still feel really terrible about yourself.

And so then you have to start digging a little deeper into like, what is the lie that I'm believing that's either not allowing me to believe this positive thing or is making me believe this really negative thing? Because there's a difference between like understanding your imperfections and accepting your weaknesses and then thinking that you're not good enough. And so a huge message I have is like, you are enough, you are good enough because, and that's where specifically with the women,

that I work with. Understanding that someone else's choices don't impact your worth or value is huge. And so we do that by like education and reading books and having speakers come in and learning about that. And so I think that's a huge piece of what I do is like just trying to unravel those lies.

Right? And that can be done in a lot of different ways. And then understanding that someone else doesn't, you know, someone else is acting, and that's true across the board, right? Like what someone else says or does towards you doesn't change your worth or value. Like your worth and values is defined because of who you are and who God created you to be. And that doesn't change because of what someone else says or does. So.

That's like the top level of kind of a couple of ways that we work on that idea that, you know, you building confidence and like getting back to the place where you do really believe that you are enough and that he didn't do this because you aren't enough. Like he did this because it's a really poor coping mechanism to something else in his life.

Mm-hmm.

Right, exactly. And honestly, I totally agree with that. Like, it really just speaks volume about this other person and not you. And yeah, it usually is some bigger problem than just like, oh, he decided to do this thing. Right. So one thing I did want to talk to you about was, you know, this. Oh, sorry, good.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Nope, go ahead.

Okay, cool. So, you know, this infidelity often carries societal stigma, right? Like, often it's not something that's looked upon as a good thing like ever. So how do you address and help women overcome that external judgment and the societal expectations that may accompany the aftermath of the betrayal?

I wish I could fix this honestly, like the social stigma around it. And I don't know where it comes from. You know, I mean, I think we're shifting a little bit away from that slowly as people start to talk a little bit more about it. But it is a piece of like why I do things like this, I think, and guest on podcasts and

speak out about it because it's so misunderstood, I think. I think the whole concept of infidelity is, it's like, oh, he's not happy or she's not happy. And so there's not enough sex in the marriage. So then they just go out and it's so much more complicated than that. And so I guess I hope inside of the group that I work with, like that's where education becomes.

a key component and that's why we read books and again and have people come in to talk because I want them to really learn and understand how these things happen because it feels like oh it just must be because of me or I wasn't good enough and then it's not. And so that like inside of the group it's a little bit different outside of the group. I remember like as I learned more and more as I was walking through my own journey just wanting to like

shout it out to people because it's just like you can see in the movies or like on TV shows. The way it's portrayed is just not the way it's happening. Like I mentioned, it's these poor coping mechanisms. For some people, it's like, well, they become an alcoholic or they eat too much. Oftentimes, that's what an affair is. It's an unhealthy coping mechanism and it just happens to be acted out through...

like sexual choices. And so like when you can, like I know that I just want like everybody else to know that too, that I'm not saying never is it like the way it looks in the movies, but there's more and more research now that's showing that's not what it's, that's not what this is about. And so I think if, and also with women, I think it's like you feel like nobody else.

understands and the reality is that's not true either. And so it's like one in three, and that's kind of mid range that could be lower or higher depending on the statistics you look. Like this happens in one in three women who are married. So it's like in a room full of a hundred women, there's like 30 other women there that do understand what you're going through. And so helping them realize like,

this is actually really common and it happens to, you know, movie stars that we think are like the most, you know, we label them beautiful and have it all together. And it's like, it's happening so much. I think that's where it's like, it carries this shame, but I'm like, okay, so many people are dealing with this. So why are we still treating it like it's this, this terrible, shameful thing when it actually doesn't have anything to do with you? It's...

the other person. So I guess I could go on and on about this because it's like as you learn more and more how these things happen, you realize more and more it's like just the brokenness in our world and the brokenness in someone else and it's like it sucks that it's happened and its impact, you know, because it can it's really hurtful. It really hurts when it happens to you. And, you know, I guess it's

I just, the shame piece of it, I'm like, it's so not true. It's such a lie that it has, you know, that it's about you. And so I guess just there, we do a lot of work around that.

Honestly, that was beautifully said. So I kind of want to come back to this community, right? So Journey Beyond Betrayal really provides a safe space for women to share their stories. So in what ways do you cultivate that environment, where individuals can feel comfortable opening up about their experience? And why is that really essential for their healing process?

Yeah, so we have a couple different pieces of the community. We have an online kind of message board area, so there's a couple different ways that people can interact there. And then we also have online group meetings where we can interact. But I've seen one of the message boards we have is like an introduction, and I encourage people once they've signed up, like,

to go and introduce themselves and share as much of their story as they're willing to inside of that in a written format. And they can see other people's stories when they join and get on those message boards. And so I've had women come in before they've even interacted like in a face-to-face way, read the other stories, share their stories and just say like, I feel so much better already just being here. Like, I'm like, you haven't even met us yet, right? But it's...

encouraging them to jump in and see the other people's stories and like they immediately realize that I'm not alone anymore like You get it like they're reading feelings that they've experienced or even similar You know situations in their marriage and so They can they can do that. There's other there's like a struggles Forum that we have too. So it's like you pop in there and you're like, oh my gosh, like I thought I was the only one and It was funny in our book group

Last night, one of the ladies said in this book we're reading, she's like, I felt like, how did she write that exactly about my husband? Like this isn't a book, right? Like she, it's obviously not written just about me and my situation. And I remember feeling that way too. Um, in reading books, like, okay, this isn't written just for my story. It's written because other people are, are feeling that way too. And so I think that's another reason why we read the books, but in the

In the group meetings too, we have a way that we cultivate community there too. And everybody's sharing on Mondays, we share a struggle from the last week, something we're celebrating from the last week and then a baby step towards healing. And so you're hearing and you're seeing other women share those things and either you can relate to them or you're just in a group where it's like, it's okay to talk about this. We're actually here to talk about this. And they might not have that in their life anywhere else.

And so it's an opportunity to talk about what they're feeling with other people who actually understand. And so some people don't even have anyone else in their life that they're talking to about it. So just even the opportunity to talk to people instantly creates community. And then when they participate and they see or hear, oh my gosh, like you understand that I think really bonds people. I call it a sisterhood because it's like.

You just feel like, okay, we all get it. We all understand. These are my people because you, I don't have to explain myself to you. So there's something that bonds you in like, in the midst of trauma, something like this that maybe other people that haven't been through it could understand in the same way, but you want, you're like craving other people. And so when you find it and you see that it's really, it's really, really powerful when you can realize like,

I'm not alone. And so I think those are the ways that we do it with the meetings and then the written boards too because it's like they can communicate even before there's an opportunity. If someone joins on like today, their next meeting isn't until Monday, but they can already start participating in the community right away.

Yeah. And also I think, you know, you're totally right, right. About like, you know, just how people just need to not feel alone in these things. Like, you know, that's why people have like, there's like AA meetings, like slaw meetings and stuff like that, because, you know, it's, yeah, nobody wants to feel alone in the trenches. Right. And that's partially also why I did this show. Cause it's, you know, part about storytelling is recognizing like other people have similar stories. So, you know, if they've, if they've gone, you know, through something similar to what you have.

and you've made it through and you're here, you're powerful, you're doing your thing. Who's to say this other person can't, right? Like to give them that hope and that support. So.

Sorry, I just am now like the delay, it's pretty noticeable, but cool. Let's kind of jump into the next question. So faith has been a guiding force in your journey, right? So can you share specific moments where your faith intersected with your healing process and how has it influenced your approach to Journey Beyond Betrayal

Mmm.

Yeah, so as a Christian, I mean, my faith was a huge kind of like foundation of what I stood on in the midst of the worst pain. And so for me, it was like I said, I acknowledged like, okay, I'm not in I'm not in control, like, accepting, okay, God is in control of this. And there were moments where it says in like Philippians four, seven, I think, like, peace that surpasses understanding.

verse became like so personally real to me in the midst of this because there were times where I felt like I shouldn't have any peace like the world is just swirling around me and everything is a mess but I did have peace and so for me I recognized that was the peace that only God could provide and that no matter what happened with my marriage like God would carry me through this was kind of like the huge thing that got me.

through it, like, okay, if this no matter what happens with my husband, like, I'll be okay, because God is going to walk through this with me. And so, you know, crying out in the middle of the night, you know, in tears to him, and just feeling like comfort, I guess, in the midst of something where I shouldn't feel any comfort at all. And so those were some

those middle of the night moments is really where there was so many of them right along the healing process and then kind of another key one I guess was like as we were working to reconcile our marriage and the couple was walking with us and it's like how do I know this will never happen again right and I don't know that it won't and she was like you just need to trust that God will show you what you need to be.

show be shown right so even if your husband isn't being honest with you even you feel like you have to be a detective but it's like just pray and ask if there's something you need to know that you will it will be being revealed to you and so trusting that god would show me that when i couldn't trust my husband was a huge thing for me and um it's a piece that i share in with women too because it's like you can't always trust your husband but like

If you have faith, if you trust that God will be there with you to walk through this and then also reveal to you anything that you need to know. And that can work both ways, I think, because it's like, do I need, is there something I need to know that I can't see because he's lying? Or also, I think it can be hard for women to see that their husband actually is serious and committed and loves them and they can't see that. And so it's like asking God to show you what's happening.

what you can't see can sometimes go either way. And I think that's huge because you want to be living inside of what's real and you can't, and when you're in the midst of that, you can't always see what's real one way or another. And so bringing your faith into that and asking for clarity was something that we talk about inside of the community. And I think...

Really, I mean, not every single woman in there is a Christian inside of the community, but we talk openly about, you know, your process for healing. And so there's a lot of sharing of, like asking for prayer and asking for wisdom from other people and sharing like what's worked. And I think for a lot of people, their faith is a huge part of what gets them through this. And so we just talk open,

to talk openly about anything that's worked for you. And oftentimes that is prayer for women, journaling, you know, those kinds of things. And so it's incorporated that way. And then some of the books have a more faith-based influence as well. Not every single book we've read is a Christian, like comes from a Christian perspective, but some of them have, you know, references to faith and Christianity and the way that that's helped the author.

as well. And so those are ways that faith is incorporated into the community. It's like you're here. I want everyone to feel comfortable, whether you're a Christian or not. But I think because I my story, you know, most people that are in there do have a Christian faith and then talk openly about how that intersects with what they're going through. Because like I said, you're

You're like really leaning heavily on faith because you can't lean on the person that you're you've trusted so much over However long you've been married

Right, and it, yeah, and I think it's so important to really have that beacon of hope, right?

Um, so talking about like really balanced.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it does definitely provide hope right and trust

I don't know. Sorry, I don't know what's going on. I- it's not delayed on my side.

Okay, so balancing empathy and empowerment. You know, empathy is crucial in your work, right? You know, yet empowerment is kind of the big goal, or that's what I'm kind of getting from this. So how do you strike a balance between empathizing with the pain of others and empowering them to take control of their own narratives?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Right? And I think often we think of those as like two separate pieces, but I think they exist simultaneously, especially in something like this, you know, you can have empathy for people because you understand what they're going through. And then also at like simultaneously be empowered to do the work that needs to happen so that you can heal from this. And so

and just live a life where you feel confident and you know that you're enough. And I don't think that, I think that balance actually becomes so much more obvious as you walk through something as painful as this because it softens you to see that empowerment isn't this like, oh my gosh, like women power and like you can just do whatever and stomp all over people. Like that's not empowerment. I actually think

Empowerment is when we're all lifting each other up and bringing each other up and encouraging each other in our strengths and allowing each of us to live inside of our gifts and walking together. And so empowerment isn't about like the individual, specifically, I mean, you are like empowered individually, but true empowerment, you want other people to be empowered as well. And you're not like stomping on them to get there. You're actually lifting them up.

And so that becomes so relevant in something like this and so obvious that you have the ability to help empower someone even more because you have the empathy. And you can say like, I get it. And you have choices. You do get to choose how you move forward here. Like, what do you want? What is your vision? Who are you? And how is all of that gonna help you step into

confidence and healing and all of that. And so they really like, for me, I think they really are intersected in a way that is beautiful because that's what happens inside of a community, right? Like I get it and I want healing for you. And so how are we gonna get there? I want you and healing meaning like not brokenhearted, but also really living out in confidence who you are. And so.

we're really encouraging and helping each other recognize that in each other when you can't necessarily see it for yourself, but other women that want that healing for you as well and want you to know the amazing, beautiful woman that you are. And so that's the beauty of like trauma and hard things is it really allows you to have both empathy and empowerment simultaneously.

Okay.

So, you know, let's talk about healing, right? And just kind of strategies behind that, because obviously long-term healing is it's an ongoing process, right? So what long-term strategies do you recommend for women to continue their healing journey, you know, beyond just the initial stages? And, you know, how does journey beyond betrayal support this ongoing?

Uh huh.

Right, and that's a good question because so many women coming in, they're like, well, how long is this gonna take? How long, like when did it happen for you? When did this happen for you? When did this happen? And it's such a unique journey. There's not like a clear, like step by step by step, like this is exactly when you're gonna do it. Since I had surgery a few weeks ago, it's like, it's a very clear path. Like at week two, you can do this. At week three, you can do this. At week...

at two months you can start to do this and then at six months you'll be doing this and I wish there was something like that for women that was like across the board. Like this is the timeline but it just isn't like that and that sucks. But that doesn't mean that you don't keep taking the steps forward because you're never going to get there if you aren't.

trying to get there. And so understanding that this is just a journey and it is gonna be a process and the more that you invest into it, the sooner you will heal, but kind of having that long-term perspective of like, okay, it's okay if this takes longer than I thought. And I really encourage people not to have a specific timeline like.

on when they expect things of themselves because it's just really hard when you're saying like, oh, by this point, I want to have X, Y, Z. And it's like, that's great. And also just give yourself some grace. If you get there, it doesn't mean that no progress has happened. And so I keep track of those like struggles and celebrations that women are sharing each week. And one way I try to encourage them to see

that they've had progress because when you're making little tiny steps, you don't always recognize how far you've come. And so it's nice that I keep track and I'll point back, okay, you feel like you haven't come, but remember that first meeting when you were here and this is what you were saying. So look at how far you've come. And so that's one way I guess I encourage them to keep working at it because you can't always see it in the midst of it, but long-term strategies

I mean, I think it's all kind of like, it's not like a short term goals and long term goals. It's just like taking steps forward and continuing to take the steps you need to until you get to where you want to go. Like what is your vision for what healing looks like or what confidence would look like or where you want to be? And then what are you doing every day to get there? And so it's really just encouraging those small steps every day.

to get to the bigger picture of where you wanna go. And as an athlete, that's really easy for me to make that connection. It's like, I wanted to win a national championship. Well, I had to work. I mean, that was four years in the making before that happened, right? And so it's like, yeah, I didn't wanna go. I didn't wanna be running 200 meter repeat sprints. I didn't wanna be in the weight room sometimes, but you have to go do those things because you have this vision of where you want to be.

And so I think if you can have that mentality of like, okay, I need to do this because I have this vision of where I wanna go and I'm gonna do the work that I need to get there. And that's kind of the perspective that I have as far as like long-term healing. It's just like, are you where you wanna be? Like, we gotta just keep taking steps and they're small steps and they're not always obvious to you. But when you've taken

100 small steps and you look back you've come a pretty far way

Yeah, honestly, beautifully said. So you talked about the bigger picture, right? So let's talk about the bigger picture when it comes down to Journey Beyond Betrayal, right? So beyond individual transformations, how do you envision the collective impact of Journey Beyond Betrayal on a larger scale, influencing societal perceptions and attitudes towards the aftermath of marital infidelity?

I know. I do hope that by sharing and being transparent and vulnerable and sharing the mess of my life, it helps people recognize some of those truths that I've shared throughout. This is not about an unhappy marriage. I mean, affairs happen in happy marriages and that people gain a better understanding of.

how these things happen and so that we can better support both sides of this situation as a society and not just condemn the person who's the betrayer and then really support the betrayed person because I do believe that the family unit is important. And so while my community is about the woman because that's all we have control over, I think...

a better understanding of for society around this would allow, you know, more support to get through these things. And there's mental health impacts on both sides that are so significant. And so we're and we're just kind of starting to address those. There's more and more research around things like that. And so I do think we're heading in the right direction as far as like learning and

and even like having science to show some of these things. And so if I can just be a small piece of that, I think that would be amazing as far as shifting the perspective and societal perceptions. And then, I mean, as far as the, like the individual transformations do have the impact on a larger scale to, it's like, you don't know, one person can have an impact like generationally. And so one marriage that is,

you know, redeemed or one woman who like is stepping out and living in who she was created to be instead of like in a broken version of herself. Like, you don't know the impact of that. And we may like I may not see it right? Because if like one of the women in my group, you know, her daughter because she's whole, then her daughter lives this life. And so that's really kind of my perspective. It's like focus on the individual not knowing, you know, if individuals women are living.

in their healed whole authentic self confidently. That, like what better way to influence people and one person can have a huge influence. And it's just like one at a time, one at a time and as many as I can help through the community. And those people are gonna help other people too because there is often that desire to like say, okay, come on.

You know, almost everybody doing work like I'm doing has been through it. And they're like, OK, I want to help other people now. And so I think the more people that can be healed are there's more support out there for all the rest of the people that will have to walk through this. And so that's kind of, I guess it's a big vision, but done one by one individually.

Thank you, Beck.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a great perspective to have that it's going to take time. It's not just something that happens overnight, right? So the last official question that I have for you is, you know, if there's one message of hope you would share with women currently facing the pain of infidelity, what would it be? And how do you envision Journey Beyond Betrayal continuing to be a beacon of support? Like, even to just imagine, you know, Kate, when you were kind of going through this for the first time, what would you tell yourself then and there?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think really it's important for women in the midst of the pain to understand that this is not your fault. And this was his choice and it doesn't have anything to do with you as much as it feels like it. And as much as he might be telling you that this is your fault or it's because of you, that this is not your fault. And it's not because you weren't enough because you absolutely are enough just as you are. And so to...

recognize that and I think acknowledge, you know, those strengths that you do have and instead of focusing so much on all of the negative things. I would also say like, there is hope. Like I am an example of that. Like you can get through this. It feels like you're never going to get to the other side of this, but just keep taking those little steps. Like what can you do today to get you to the vision that you have for where you want to be and keep

Keep at it and then I guess I will put a little asterisk there. It's okay if you need to step out and like, you know, there's days that you don't feel like doing anything. That's also okay. Give yourself a ton of grace because you're walking through the midst of trauma and it's probably like, for me, it still is the hardest thing I've ever been through. And so it's okay to give yourself grace in the midst of that. And I think I also want to just encourage you that like you do get to have a choice

how you move forward. Maybe you don't feel like that in your marriage, but you do get to choose for yourself if you are going to heal your heart. And I really encourage you to pursue that choice with everything you have, because there is hope on the other side of it. And make those choices to help yourself get there.

Yeah, absolutely powerful. So before we end the show, I like to ask a random question just kind of as a palette cleanser, right? Kind of keep you on your toes. So the question I have for you today is if you could have dinner with one public figure, who would it be and why?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, I'm really not good at like, who public figures are. Like I don't follow all of that kind of stuff. I guess maybe, yeah, I'll just go with Julia Roberts, because I love her, like I love a lot of her movies. And she seems like kind of a fun person. And I don't know, I just for whatever reason, Pretty Woman pops into my head.

Well, let's just say anybody.

I love so many of her movies. And she doesn't seem like, you know, overly involved in all of the drama of Hollywood, but she's a famous person I kind of respect.

Mm-hmm.

And hopefully Julie Roberts gets a chance to hear this and you guys can have dinner. But cool. So yeah, so before we end the show also to like where can people find you?

Yeah, yeah, reach out to me.

So the journey beyond betrayal.com is my website, or there's no that, just journey beyond betrayal.com. And then I'm on Instagram at journey beyond betrayal. And so those are the best places to find me and learn more about the community and the coaching and the support that I provide. And I would, if you are walking through this and you need support, I would be honored to walk with you.

through this and help you find that hope and healing that you're looking for.

Thank you so much, Kate. Appreciate your time.

Yeah. Thank you for having me.