Yerba Mate, Running, and Raising Awareness: A Passionate Journey

Dive into a world of untold narratives with the podcast that explores the unseen quadrant of the Johari window of our lives. Here, we uncover the hidden stories and unspoken truths of extraordinary individuals, revealing what others don't know about us, but what we know about ourselves. This is The Bottom Left Pane.

Hey guys, and welcome to The Bottom Left Pane, where we dive deep into the hidden corners of our guests lives. In this episode, we're joined by Devin, a man of diverse passions and profound insights from the challenges of ultra marathons to the intricate world of podcasting, Devin's journey is a mosaic of unique experiences.

He shares not only his love for yerba mate, South American tea, and running, but also opens up about his personal battles, including his road to sobriety and just the pursuit of a more authentic life. Join us as we explore how Devin's varied interests have shaped his life's path, offering lessons in consistency, overcoming adversity, and embracing vulnerability.

Awesome. Well, Devin, honestly, it's so great to have you today. Thank you so much for jumping in to do this interview. Yeah, I think we can go ahead and just dive right into it. Right? Let's go ahead and just kind of start off and, you know, can you briefly introduce yourself and share what, you know, you're comfortable telling us about just kind of your background and, you know, just things you might be interested in just who you are.

Well, thanks first, Luis, for having me on your show. It is an honor to be on. I love your setup and everything. Got a really good you're an inspiration for me as a podcaster. So you know, for you guys that are listening, he's doing a great job here. And I, I, to answer your other question, it was about introduce myself.

I did kind of struggle to write a bio. Cause it's like, well, what do I say about myself? Like, you know, like how do you. Describe yourself to people. It's like, cause it depends on who's asking. Right. Cause, and this is what we'll, I'm sure talk about later in this episode is that have this whole thing about Yerba Mate, which people don't know anything about, and I don't usually tell a lot of people about it because it's like, I got to explain it and go all this thing and it's like, then they ask all these kind of questions.

And it's like, you know what? Like you don't really care. I'm not going to waste your time basically. So as far as like introducing myself, it's like, well, you know. I grew up in Arkansas, like I live in Tennessee, got a wife and two kids, you know, just kind of the generic stuff. Right. But there's a couple of things that I put on that one pager that I don't know, cause it's true and it sounds like attention getting, but I mean, it is true.

And you know, I am podcaster. So that's, I'm sure we'll talk about, and then father that's important to me. Because it's like. That's my legacy. And it's a lot of values in me. And, you know, that's something another, another thing, another topic maybe. But the other one is like ultra marathon runner.

So maybe people know what that is. And that's a kind of crazy thing. But. People that run a marathon and then run longer . So I kind of just got into that. I know it sounds stupid, but I didn't run at all. I don't have a history of running. I just was kind of one of those challenges and then it grew into a bigger challenge.

And I take a lot of that stuff that I do and that running aspect and apply a lot of that to life. Mm-Hmm. And it helps me in a lot of things, believe it or not. Applying some of those principles of just like, you know, just keep moving forward progress and also endurance of like Resilience and stuff in life and all the problems and whatnot and I apply a lot of those things to kind of my life So, I don't know.

That's I guess a little bit Yeah,

no, honestly, So a couple things. Yeah. First off, like, I'm so glad you pronounced it yerba mate. I was gonna ask, like, because I've heard I heard about this when I was in college, right? Like people always drinking this for studying and stuff. And I was always curious because I wasn't too sure if people, it was pronounced yerba mate or yerba mate.

Oh, nice. Is that what

it is? Yep. This is, this is a tradition, well, this isn't a traditional, but because it's glass, it's not made out of the actual like gourd or the wood. But, but yeah, this is, this is the matan and the yen there, and this is called the bonia or the, the straw. But yeah, so

nice. Well actually so on that too, like, so what, where does, is it originate from like Argentina or where, where does it originate from?

Yeah, so this, this could be a controversial topic, but it's in that area that borders Brazil, Paraguay, and Argentina is kind of like the Mecca for Yeramate and people will, you know, where does it originate from? It's like, well, you know, it depends on, you know, who's asking, right? But, but it's, it's mostly drinking in South Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina, and Uruguay as well.

There's other countries that do drink it, but that's kind of like, I guess you could say where it starts from. So,

yeah. And on, on that too. So what got you so interested in specific drink? Like, you know, was it like the flavor or just what, yeah. What brought you to, I believe you're like, you're like an ambassador for them, right?

Or, or something like that.

Well, yeah. Self declared ambassador. Yeah. Because. No, I mean, seriously though, this is kind of the whole thing of this podcast is like, and this hopefully encouragement to your, your guest as well as like following your passions, even if they sound silly like me, you know, I'm a, I'm a white guy in the U S so I'm not Argentine, my wife's Argentine though.

So it's like, well, what business do I have talking about your Monday? Cause it's not my culture. It's not my. You know, I didn't grow up with it, but I've adopted it all and learned it all from my wife. And so I, as her being part of my family, being part of me, it's like I embrace that and, and, and take it as not, not as my own, but I, you know, if I'm describing this correctly, it's like, well, you know, it's not mine personally, but it's mine to share, like, with.

All these benefits that I've enjoyed and I want other people to experience those great things as well. So basically long story short is that I got into it because of my wife, basically you know, her always drinking it. And so I started drinking it and all the health benefits and all the other cool stuff and cultural things that I've learned about it.

And. Then I just basically created an Instagram page and started sharing because I felt like, okay, what do I do with this? I always had this like back of my mind, you know, I should like, you know, do something with this, you know, what, what do I do? Like, do I start up like a company and sell you on my day or do I.

You know, I don't know. So I just kind of started posting on Instagram about stories and whatnot, and then realizing there's a community and finding more people. And then that turned into a podcast that allows me to network with so many people throughout the world that you would never know. Otherwise putting it out there allowed me to find these people in the world, like in China, Vietnam, South Africa turn it at Tobago.

I mean, places you would never think of. They're so passionate

drink. Yeah. I mean, yeah, a lot of the people, especially like, yeah, completely, like there's this guy in China that's like, you know, super passionate and, and it's like, your Monday has nothing to do with China, like at all. He just really loves messy and messy drinks my day.

So that's basically it. And yeah it's, it's crazy. Right. So when you, I guess, follow those passions, you find other passionate people. And I guess that's also encouragement is you're never alone. You're not alone. There's at least one other person out there that enjoys it. And, and if maybe if it's just one, then that's fine too, you know, it doesn't have to be hundreds of people.

I think that's what, you know, social media will want you to, their version of success, right. Versus, you know, what are you successful? And so that's why I say you're my ambassador because I really am promoting this throughout the world. Like our podcast has been downloaded in like 38 countries. So, you know, countries that I've not even been to.

So, you know it's not like I, you know, have friends there. It's like.

So the or the marathon running, are these one of your, your secret passions? Like, have you talked to the world about this or what, what would that be?

They were bottom left panels until yeah, until I don't know, a year ago, maybe. You know what I'm saying? So yeah. And that's, I think that's, it's interesting.

Because yeah, it's like no one can know until you say it. Right. I guess. And then it's this, at least for me, it's kind of not, not a shame necessarily, but I think this is something for most people is like their passions or things that they really like, they self critique and thinking that the world.

It's going to critique them on it or whatever, for whatever reason, it could be anything, but you just assume like, Hey, I don't fit in in this topic, right? And that's why it's, the world doesn't know about it cause it's not obvious or whatever. And so as a mental thing of survival, you know, we don't want to stick out of the crowd too much because you know, if you're ostracized and you're cut off from the tribe and you die.

But. But that's our, you know, primitive brain or whatever. And so we kind of leave it here, I think, in that bottom left panel. And then one thing I'm learning is just putting it out there more like, you know, it's funny how people actually encourage you more, it seems like. And then also it's like, I wasted, wasted my whole time in fear for nothing.

And. I think the other thing too, if, you know, people will say things and, and that's okay, cause you know, not the whole world's not going to love you. I mean, if you wanted the whole world to love you to just sell ice cream, you know, I mean but you know, also I think like that The, I guess the other fear too of like people, whatever.

And unfortunately, the truth is most people are too self self absorbed in their own self to really give a crap about what you're doing. You know, that's like, you know, I'm not looking at you. I'm more concerned about my, my own. Hand in front of my face, like, you know, I don't know, but it's just my own observations of me working through some of this stuff myself.

Yeah. Okay. So then on that, though, like what, what was it about these passions that, you know, made you want to keep them hidden though? Like, like, why not start sooner? Yeah. And

that's, I think that's the, the, my fear, whatever it's like, okay, I don't fit into this box. And then like. You know, I could talk about your my team, maybe 10 people like it and it's like, you know, whatever, like, well, what's the point kind of thing?

And also like, I don't know. I don't want to have to, it's like, you think people won't accept it or whatever. And then it's like, I don't want to have to explain it to my friends and family or whatever. Right. It's like the people closest to you is the ones that bother you the most. But in truth, they're probably the ones that are going to support you the most.

It's like, at least in my mind, that's what I'm thinking because it's like the, the, the random strangers on the internet, let's say they're the ones that are most supportive in my mind, because it's like, yeah, because they know nothing about me other than this thing. But all my other friends, family know all of this stuff.

They don't know this thing. So it's kind of, I don't know, a paradox there. I think there's some, some kind of imposter syndrome as well involved of like, especially with like your, my damn marathon, at least in my, for me, because the imposter syndrome for me for your, my day is like, well, I'm a white guy from the U S right.

So what do I know about your, my day? Right. That's, you know, and then as far as marathon run, it's like, you know, I didn't do it in high school or college. I wasn't a runner and, you know, I'm not built like some. You know, athlete, I'm not, you know, in a kipchoge or whatever, you know, run a two hour marathons or anything.

It's just, I'm just a normal guy that just enjoys it and not bad at it. But, you know, it's like, you know, I'm no world record holder either, you know? And it's kind of like, it's, it's, it's a weird thing of self promotion, you know? Cause you want to be proud about something you do, but at the same time, you don't want to like be that guy that's like, Oh, look what I did, you know?

I think that's, that's another paradox too. things to promote, but you also don't want to put yourself out there like one of those annoying ads. It's like, I've made 10 billion and here's how, you know? Right. So

yeah. So on that too. So what did it feel like when you were able to start showing this with the world, like when you felt like, you know, Hey, now's my time to start talking about this, let people know what I'm into.

So the podcast is anyways, it was a total serendipitous thing. So the. I would started is basically I think it was, I don't know if it was during pandemic or not, but started posting on Instagram probably about two years ago and. Just give it a shot. Why not? Right. I'll start a page and see what happens.

And I made maybe like three or four posts and I was like, okay, this is stupid. What am I doing? You know, what a waste of time. And I just stopped for like a whole year. And then like a year later, we took a trip down to Bolivia. So this was last year. And there is Yerba Mate down there. Kind of influencing from Argentina.

And so found a store down there, checked them out. And I was like, you know what, I should post about this because. This is interesting that it's here in Bolivia and you know, maybe do some reviews on some of the Arab brothers and that was just basically my thinking so I was like and one of my friends kind of told me it's kind of the same thing if you're passionate why don't you just do it just for fun anyways do a hobby or whatever I don't know but so hey okay fine you know and I just kind of started doing it and then and then of course it started to grow and it was like huh okay so I just kind of kept doing it and then I did some Instagram lives like you You know, talking with some people, just kind of having chats about, you know, Hey, why do you like your mind to blah, blah, blah, you know, just doing basically this, except on Instagram live or whatever, you know, and then I realized, okay, well, this is fun.

Number one, like, okay, well, I should do something with this. And you always, I think not everybody, but most people have like, you know, I should start a podcast about blah, blah, blah topic, but they never do anything right with it. And so I just kind of posted it out there too. My followers like, Hey, should I start a podcast or whatever?

Just, just, I don't know. Just see what happens. And so many people voted for it. Yeah. No, you should do it. It'd be great. Oh, I'd love it. And like, really? Like you guys want to podcast about this? Like who's going to listen to that? Like what a waste of time. Like you really want to listen to this for. We talk about this for 30 minutes and in my mind, because I'm, I'm just so harsh on myself in that way but realizing, no, it's providing a lot of value people to have all these questions and want to know.

And they want to hear about your experience. They want to hear your story like. They, they want to hear your story, like, tell your story, like, don't shortcut it, like it's something I'm learning too, of like, just like, oh yeah, you're about to whatever, like, no, they want to know, like, how did you get into, why, why do you like it, what do you like, think about this, and so just the more doing that, and finding more people, and networking with more people, because having more people on guests, and stuff, and it just, How to start taking off, you know, I mean, still very early in the stage, but I'm saying it's the growth has been pretty amazing.

So. I don't know if that answered a really long.

Sorry. No, honestly, that's great. Yeah. Like yeah, like that 1st off, like, just. It still is really interesting to me how this can all just come from 1 drink. You know, like, to me, it was just something that people were drinking in college. I maybe had, like, I had it a couple of times just to kind of, you know, study in there just because everybody was trying it.

But to hear that you're so passionate about this, like, it, it really puts things into perspective, like, especially to you talking about how a lot more people were interested than you thought it might have been because, you know, everybody's story wants to be told and everybody has questions about it.

Like, you never really know what. What people are going to be into, right? And it does make me wonder to, like, you know I haven't had again, like, since since college, like, a few years ago, but like, you know, like, what what flavors out there? Like, what what's your

favorite? Sure. Well, selfish. I mean, shameless plug.

I did an episode about my, like, top five recommendations and stuff that my personal favorites and blah, blah, blah. But anyways, as far as flavors wise, there's, there's not really, there are some that are flavored, so I'll be straightforward. A lot of people usually don't like it their first time because it's kind of bitter.

It's a bitter green tea basically is the best way to describe it. But. Yeah. You know, it's kind of like, and I say this too, is like people drink black coffee or drink, you know, Alcohol that tastes like crap and you know, and they get used to it, you know It's kind of like that a custom tastes like, you know It's so I guess I kind of throw that comment aside because like just because you tried it once doesn't mean you're you know You can't just completely stop trying it.

But as far as like I forgot the original question you were talking about flavors and stuff and getting it but what what other question was there?

Yeah, just to kind of, like, what your favorite flavor was, like, what kind of flavors are out there? Like, I mean, yeah, like, anything about, like, you know, what, what would it taste like really to somebody that might have tried it before?

Right? I mean, you're gonna touch upon it, but

yeah, and so I guess just another thing to like, Anna Park is 1 of my current number 1s, which is it's an organic from Argentina. But. Because now it's getting big in the U. S. now, there's a couple of different companies and stuff that do sell it here in the U.

S. especially where you are in New York. There's a lot more in northeast like companies. There's several up there in New York that that started businesses and stuff. There's one in Philadelphia. There's like, 2 or 3 in New York. There's 1 in New Jersey. So there's Toma, so shout out to Toma. He's in New Jersey.

There's Circle of Drink in New York. There's the Romante Lab in New York. There's Yerba Crew in Philadelphia, and there's several in Florida, even out in California, but yeah, so.

Okay, so it's, it's, it's, Romante's not. I'll be honest with you, I thought it was a brand in itself.

No, there's whole kinds of, it's just like coffee, right?

In the sense of, it's the tea, it's the loose leaf tea, right? Basically. And so the brands are gonna be just like Folgers or Nespresso or whatever, right? Got it, okay. And of course, there's one of those brands, there's CBC, there's Taragoui, there's yeah, and there's all kinds of and there's now, especially in the U.

S. There's a lot of the canned like energy drink here about my taste. So that's kind of usually the easier way for most Americans to get into it versus the whole traditional way. Because it's a little more complicated and all that stuff. And so, yeah, clean cause your bay there's a couple of others I found.

I can't I think I'm off the top of my head. Ikaro is in Baltimore. Those are just a couple that know off the top of my head. There's another one. I can't remember the name, but yeah, there's a couple different ones. Yeah. That's so funny though. Cause like, is obviously the biggest name by far.

Yeah.

I was about to say that was the only one that I know about. Yeah.

Yeah. That's the biggest name by far in the U S

dang. You really learned something new every day. Cause in my mind I was thinking, yeah, like this, this Koyaki, this brand like was like what it was. Specific to them, but yeah, I guess, can you give me a little bit more like history behind, like, what you're about to actually is then?

Because obviously, like, you know, somebody like me could just be like, oh, yeah, like, it's the only thing we know about. Right?

Yeah, so here 1 quick 2nd, I'll show you 1 bag that have no problem. So. It's, it's, like I said, it's kind of like loosely kind of green tea is about the best way I can kind of describe it.

I'm trying to, I don't know if you do anything with the video, but there's like some of it, if you can see. Okay. Kind of like what it looks like as far as. It looks like oregano. And this is like baggy. Yeah. Well, that's the thing is this is the bag like it comes in. Huh. Or in a park and comes in a half kilogram or kilogram bag.

So that's the other misconceptions in a lot of videos and explaining like people thinking i'm, you know Doing some kind of marijuana or something or whatever because it's I got a half kilo bag of of suspicious looking, you know oregano or whatever

That's you know a common misconception of stuff, especially when you're drinking it like this and filling up water and stuff so, anyways, that's a common I guess running joke and whatever but It's, it's, it's called Ilex peregrinesis, peregrinesis, is like the scientific term for yerba mate but basically it comes off of a tree, leaves a holly kind of type of leaf, so it's not the same as like you tea leaf, I guess in that sense but it has caffeine.

It has, you know, vitamins like yeah, it's got like AB and some other magnesium and, and other stuff in, in it. Like all the antioxidants is what I'm saying. It has a lot of antioxidants, like green tea. But you still get a good amount of caffeine. And it also has theo bromine and theo feline, which Theo bromine is in cacao or chocolate.

So you get this euphoric, you know, feeling and the theo feeling. And so it's, the way that the caffeine is released is a more steady and clarity versus just like a punch of crash and jitters and Right. No offense to coffee, but that's, you know, the kind of the, the whole crash switch there. And that's the whole thing is like, it's not a crash, it's not a jitters.

It's, it's a sustained kind of. Almost calming energy and clarity and that's kind of the huge benefits that for me personally health benefits and that is the reason I'm Personally like it and can help convince people to get to give it a try But deeper way way way deeper than that. It started by indigenous people called Guarani which are native to like kind of That region, especially in Paraguay, that that's actually the native.

Well, let me put it this way. That's 1 of the official spoken languages in Paraguay is Guarani. So not Spanish, they do speak Spanish, of course, but Guarani is the 1 of the official languages. So that indigenous people. Started drinking it, you know, and then the Jesuits that came in from Europe and, you know, converted the people and everything, they adopted the Yeramate and they kind of spread it all over commercialized it, I guess, back in the day, essentially, to where it is today.

And that's, I guess, the kind of history of it, but also the 1 thing that I always try to explain to Americans that don't fully get it, or not even just Americans, but people that are not from a culture that is that. So this, this is the mate, and like you just fill it with water. So, me, I'm the person who starts.

If I'm the person that's starting, I'm called the cebador, which is the person that prepares the mate. I drink the first one, and then I pass it to you. So whoever, however many people are with us, one, two, three, ten. I'm the person that prepares it for everyone. So I'm like the host and we share the same straw, which I know freaks most people out, but it's, it's the communal aspect of it.

It's the connection. It's the that's why it's deeper than that too. And that's the bond, I guess you could say. Because we're literally, you know, sharing DNA. I guess you could say, you know, it's like we literally connected in it. I know it sounds kind of whatever gross to most people are I guess but you know People share other things and don't even think about it I actually had someone on it's like i've seen women share lipstick and there's of course guys that You know share joints and stuff like that and you know You share a drink or like why is this any different?

It's just the kind of like the cultural stigmas or whatever not saying that you have to share them via to enjoy it But that's the cultural Part to explain it as far as the connection and connecting to ancestry, but also connecting to history and the person with you, of course, and having, it's just like any other thing that we do together, like it, it's a shared experience that allows us to connect and have conversations and stuff.

And that's kind of like the extra beauty about it. And especially because now that it's literally throughout the world, it's like, you know, now you can connect with people all over the world over. A drink, essentially. So, you know,

yeah, that's so interesting. I would have never guessed that there was this whole like ritual behind it like that, right?

Like, almost like the peace pipe where you're just kind of passing it around. Right? Yep. Like, so what, like, how, how has this not only just the Yerba Mate in itself, right? But like the podcast, you're like, how has this like influence like your relationships with people? Right? How have you been able to use it as your ritual?

Right? Like passing around this information of the Yerba Mate?

Yeah, so it's allowed me to. Well, a platform, I guess, to communicate whatever. You know, yeah, it's about Yerba Mate, but I realize it gives me a platform to communicate essentially about whatever I want. This is just the, the vehicle, I guess you could say, right?

Okay, yeah. Or the, the stage or whatever. It's, it's not necessarily just about Yerba Mate as far as like, yeah, I can go into all the how tos and stuff, but it's also allowed me to talk about other things as far as rituals and habits and whatnot.I actually celebrated a year of sobriety from, from alcohol and I was on another podcast called that sober guy podcast.

He's a big deal, but because I was able to share my one year of like sobriety and how Yerba Mate played a part in that in the sense of having a positive outlet of replacing bad habits with good habits. So in other words, drink alcohol, drink this, you know, instead of, you know, using my. I used kind of my creative energy to, I mean, the podcast and everything else.

And it's kind of like some of those things and tying that in, that makes sense. And so also talking about, you know, marathons, right. Athletic performance and endurance and how their studies about your Monday, you know, and that it can, you know, help athletic performance. You know, it's, it's, it's, you know, the studies are kind of, how can I say not, Not inconclusive, but there's no hard evidence, but I can still talk about that.

And well, here's what I've experienced, whether the science is out there or not. I drink it. I run. I mean, here's what, how I feel, not saying I'm in a doctor by any means, because I'm not, and I'm not saying I'm a professional athlete because I'm not, but. This is just my shared experience, my personal experience.

And this gives me a outlet for that. So, and even talking about this, allowing me to be on a, talk about your hidden passions or whatever. It's like, this is just the thing. Does that make sense?

Yeah, no. Okay. So I'm kind of interested to, and you talked about how the two can be related, right? Like, or how the, your Monte has been able to help you with your running and stuff.

Cause I'm also curious about that. And like, how you got into that just in my mind, I'm thinking, wow, like, so is this like the magic pill to help me start running? Right? Like, it talks to me a little bit about, you know, what, what it, what it's done for you in, in helping you in that aspect of, of like the running part of your life.

Yeah. So my wife and I drink it first thing in the morning. That's just. Kind of the ritual and also it's just the same thing as anybody drinks a coffee first thing in the morning this instead So that kind of like is my anchor I guess you could say for my start in my day And then I usually run afterwards and you know because they're kind of tied You know, I can, I can definitely tell you when I haven't drink every Monday, same thing.

Like, if you hadn't had your coffee this morning, it's the same things like, you know, I'm foggy or whatever, versus, you know, or how you're feeling. Right. The more, you know, whatever. So there's that. And then also like, I mean, because you're drinking water. So I mean, I can't prove, but as far as hydration and stuff like that, and I think just in general, a little bit of caffeine, I mean, there's, there's studies on that too, about, because obviously it gets your blood flowing and things like that.

So, you know, to help you, your body move, you know, I'm saying to get, get you going. Right. But, you know, versus, you know, if it makes you run faster, I can't, you know. But obviously you're, you're, you're more present and obviously your blood's kind of, you know, your system's going, I guess. So, you know, as far as that goes, I mean, that's, you know, one thing for sure.

You know, I can say, you know, but yeah. Okay.

So let's, let's kind of shift the shift into this, right? Why did you get into running? Like, you know, yeah. Talk to me a little bit more

about that. So something in my life, I think, and this is something maybe in general for most people too, when you have those challenges, once you surmount them or it's uncomfortable, but then after you do it and you're like, huh, wasn't so bad.

I didn't die. And then it challenges to grow bigger and do something better. So I basically, for my 30th birthday, did a half marathon just on a whim. Because I had a professor at the time that used to run Ironmans to do all these things and he had all these medals and stuff and hanging in, in the back of his office and I just asked him about it.

There happened to be a half marathon basically in the town we were living on my birthday. So I was like, it'd be my birthday challenge or whatever. I just, just go with it. Ran half marathon. I didn't die, you know, I didn't do great. Obviously I finished it though. That's all that mattered, right? And then I was like, well, I didn't die.

I wonder what, what a marathon would look like. And it probably took me about another year and a half before I actually stepped up to try that challenge. But then after I did the marathon, I was like, well, I didn't die. It sucked a lot and I'm not gonna lie to you, but okay, I can do it. Finished it. And there's like 1 percent of people in the whole earth that can say that.

And so it's like, well. You know, then, like I said, the whole applying a lot of things in life about just training consistency, you know, overcoming obstacles and just enduring, even when it sucks and like, so I guess seeing all that stuff and also help just running anything physical. Really, I think helps give you some, some clarity and get some kind of good energy going in general, whatever that is for you.

But running has just been a good thing for me. And that's just, I just keep doing it, I guess, because. When I stop doing it, I feel one way. I feel like crap. And then when I do it, you know, not that I'm not tired, but I feel a lot better about myself and, you know, all the positive things that go with that, you know, when you're in a better state of mind or better state

of being.

So, on that right path marathon didn't kill you, you just did it on a whim, right? I'm curious. Did you do any kind of training before that? Like, oh, you just got up and you're like, you know, let's do this.

I had some, like, Walmart shoes, some gym shorts and a long sleeve shirt because it was kind of cold that day.

It was, it was actually. 29th is my birthday. So it was, yeah, it was like, you know, whatever it was four years ago. And so yeah yeah, I totally just basically my, my professor said, well, you just got to jog for two hours. And I was just like, okay, fair enough. Like, and that's basically what I did.

And I, you know, in that, in my mind, that's all I knew. So I didn't, like, overthink it. I just like, well, I'm just going to go out there and just jog for 2 hours.

That's kind of crazy. Yeah.

And then obviously, yeah, for the marathon, I definitely trained because it's a whole different beast. But, and I'm not saying you shouldn't train at all, but definitely saying you should, but the half marathon is a little more forgiving than the full as far as, like, you know, time and distance.

Right? So, then, okay, so

you said you did the half marathon, the marathon, and then earlier you talked about doing ultra marathons. So, what, yeah, what's the, what's the difference there? Like, how many more miles

is that? Anything over 26. 2 really is technically ultra. I think, I think officially after 27, it's officially ultra, but, you know, that that's the thing is like, it doesn't really matter.

But there are people that do 100 miles. Two hundred miles just ridiculous things. Yeah, the first I've ever done was 46 and I did it like overnight for like 10 hours Sorry, 46 miles. Yeah, 46 miles. Yeah Yeah,

what was that? Like, like what was your body feeling? I can only imagine long

And I was tired because it was overnight.

That was the worst part actually Believe it or not was just staying up and believe it or not. I know it sounds crazy, but I was less or less Like, I felt better actually after finishing that 46 that I did after my last marathon, I guess, because you're, you're not running fast the whole time. Sometimes you're even walking.

So just to be, I didn't run 46 miles the whole time. Right? Just, just declaring that, you know, I walked stopped a, you know, you drink, you know, stuff like that. So but yeah so that's 1 thing, but I felt more refreshed because you have to kind of pace yourself to write. Okay.

Yeah. So on that, what's it like kind of doing this overnight?

Like, are you running with like flashlights? Like, do you have people like kind of behind you or something like,

no, it was on a horse track. So it was running like half mile loops all night. Hamster wheel kind of thing. And it was no way stage didn't light and everything. So it wasn't,

it wasn't 46 miles.

You ran around the track.

I wasn't alone. So there was a whole ton of people out there. It was kind of a somewhat of a, you know, event and everything. But yeah, that's crazy. The hamster wheel thing is, is, is definitely annoying. So I, I will say this just, just so I'm not completely crazy. There's other people that do this, but the, the, the running ultra thing, it's a thing.

But I've, I personally, so I, I did my last marathon. And I hated it. So I didn't exactly enjoy it. And because I was trying to achieve like a time basically, and that kind of gets into that mentality of like, you have to finish it in a certain amount of time, but the truth is it doesn't matter. No one gives a crap about your time, but you're not winning any awards.

And for me, if I was competing professional, maybe then I'm just a normal guy. Right. And so that's when my experience kind of sucked. So I chose to make, make my miles matter. In other words, when I run now. When I do a big event like that ultra, I did it to raise funds and awareness for like to end human trafficking organization that I partnered with.

And so that gave me an extra reason, a passion for doing it because it had nothing to do with running 46 miles. It was to like, essentially get attention and, and, and not in a, it's, it's, I feel like I have to explain this, but it's like, I'm not really, it's not about me running. It's. It's, it's to get you to look at me and ask, well, why are you doing this?

Here's why. Right. And, and that's, that's, that's why I'm saying, you know, it's a bigger cost. Like, you know, it's not look at me. It's like, Hey, look over here. This is why kind of thing, you know, I guess, does that make sense? No, a hundred

percent. Yeah. It's, it's. It's the running, the running is to get the attention, but the attention is being diverted to the cause, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So on that, right. A question that I had was, you know, you talked about how you use some of these like things that you've learned from running, like in your everyday life, right? So what are some of those things that you've now had to like these lessons that you kind of move into the life?

Biggest thing would be consistency. And I, this is true for like everything in life, I think personally, because I see it so much, it's producing a podcast episode consistently coming through every week, no matter what, rain or shine, you know, you and I both know if you record a couple ahead of time, you, you can, you can get ahead of yourself so you don't have to do it.

Like, you can take a week off and still get it done, but the thing is, you were consistent, you put in the work before, so you can take some time off later or whatever. Right. Same thing with. Anything else you do in life, you know, you keep showing up consistency, you know, keep showing up consistent doing the thing you have to do You'll get your reward, you know, whatever that is and so with running the same thing like you don't just Go out and run a marathon.

Like I guess you could, it'll suck completely. And I mean, I mean, definitely you can, I mean, you could walk a marathon and I've seen people do it, but I guess what I'm saying is like, you know, you want to get better at it. You got to keep putting in effort. You got to keep training, whatever it is. And so even myself, after I finished that 46 miles, I basically took a whole month off and did.

Like nothing, like, have you seen the movie, like I think it was end game where like Thor just goes off to the island and retreats and binges for like you know, a month and they're like, yeah, basically that's what I did. I was just like, my life sucks. I hate this. I'm done. I'm not going to run again.

You know, woe is me, you know, and then after finally you know, wallow in for a little while and then get back out and run. And I'm like, oh my goodness, like I'm so out of shape after just a month of not doing anything. Right. It's like how quickly you can. Is that the right word? Where like the muscles weaken and stuff, but in other words, like you get out of the routine and then how quickly that momentum will stop.

You know, the ball keeps rolling until you stop pushing and it'll go for a little while. And then after a while, you got to start all the way over again and pushing it back uphill. And that's basically what happened to me. It's like, okay, I was running, you know, 46 miles or whatever. And I was running at this pace.

And then after taking a month off, it's like, it was like I had never ran. Before, you know, it was like, man, like this, I should be doing twice this fast and, you know, twice this long. And it's like, I'm like, I'm done, you know, like, and it took a whole another, about a month of putting in work to finally get back to kind of like where I sort of was, you know?

So yeah, just to. Stay in motion, I guess, stay consistent, keep doing whatever you're doing, even if it's just whatever simple thing it is, it doesn't matter. It's like that one thing is if you just keep doing it, like, you know, it doesn't have to be this huge thing, but just focus on the basics, I think.

Yeah.

So on that too, you know, you talked about like, you know, moving from your phase from this, this, this Thor, right. And end game to, you know, all of a sudden now being into ultra marathons and everything. I'm curious earlier, you talked to about like, you know, you becoming you recovering from your addiction and everything was.

Either the the Imamate or the running, like was this really key to, you know, becoming sober and also helping with your recovery?

Yeah, definitely, definitely. And it's giving you like, you know, using some, some energy in a positive way, I guess, you know, for sure. I, I will say, you know, I, I'm a man of faith, so I definitely believe.

You know, God, and that's my whole keeping me to be able to do it. So I guess I just want to say it's not just me and sheer willpower and stuff. And I have accountability. There's another group of guys that I, you know, I messaged with often, but you know, it really just kind of started as a challenge. To like, just go for a year and see if you can make it a year, essentially.

And you know, I had had so many bad experiences with alcohol in my life that I thought, you know what enough is enough. Like I'm tired of waking up feeling like this and I got a family to take care of. I, I got to be more responsible. Like I got two little kids. Like I can't be living this kind of life.

This is not the man I want to be. Right. This is not the man. I should be your, or I want to be personally, like, I got to do this for myself. I got to do this for them and do this for other people. Like, so I guess it's just all those layers of things. And it wasn't like, I guess, just to say that encouragement for people that think you have to be like some, you know, like super addicted guy that's laying cracked out on the street and go through a 12 step program.

Like, I didn't do any of that stuff and I wasn't this super horrible monster. Like, you know, that was skipping work and just going getting drunk or anything. But I still wasn't who I wanted to be, you know, it's like, so I guess you don't have to be this super evil monster and go through this program.

Like you can just stop. Like, I don't want to do this anymore. I want to do this. Like, I, you know, I want to be this person. So just go for that. And, you know I guess putting something positive, replacing bad habits with good habits, I guess, you know, if, if, if at all possible, I think that's, you know, something.

So Instead of, you know, staying out late or whatever, I go to bed early and I get up early and go work out like in that running. So therefore, because I'm tired and I got up at five in the morning, I'm not going to stay out till 10 because it's like, I'm done. Like, you know, because I'm already asleep. Like,

yeah.

So on that too, like. You know, it sounds like you must have needed a lot of support while you were doing all this. And especially too, now that you continue to do all this. So what does your support system look like as you kind of either you know, moved into your, your recovery phase and also to just you know, like still working with these, these passions,

right?

Yeah. So as far as the sobriety, it's actually a pretty simple system. I have this thing or this app, it's called like, I am sober. And I check in, it's just an app you check in and there's like your pledge, basically the reason why you're doing it, which I wrote out my why pretty simple of just like families or it's costing me energy and finances.

And that's my extra layer of like, you know, Hey, if I save. Even if it's, you know, one drink a month, that's like, I'll say, let's say, let's say that's five to 10 bucks. I will have five or 10 bucks per month. And then I can use that for something else. I'd go buy some more running shoes or something, you know, like, so it's like, that's an extra thing, but yeah, just check in.

Pledge, like I'm gonna stay sober today. And then at the end of the day, it reminds you again, it's automatic notifications, whatever. And that's okay. I'm sober today. So there's that. And then there's this group of guys that just kind of message, you knowand then just talking about it, I guess, letting more people know, like, at first I was kind of careful to say it, like I told my wife and maybe like, My brother and, you know, maybe two friends that I knew were already, like, sober or whatever, just to let them know.

But at first I didn't want to make it, like, public, because what if I, like, slip or whatever, you know, and then it's like And then, so, I just started talking about it more, about six months, and then ten months, and then now a year. To like, okay, now it's like, now more people just complete strangers like you and everybody else knows it's like, well, you know, I can't go back and not that I want to, but, you know I guess it's like way of holding yourself accountable.

Right? Yeah, exactly. So that, as far as accountability and that, and then podcast, obviously, if an episode doesn't show up, well, Hey, what's going on? Right. So it's kind of like, you know, I have this audience depending on me, essentially, in my mind. I mean, I'm not saying that they are, but in my mind, it's like, well, I told him I was going to do this.

So I'm going to do it. Yeah, I guess those are the main things. And then with racing or with marathons or whatever you want for running, it's like the easiest thing there is just picking a race, like a date on a calendar. I've heard this from this Spartan talk or whatever, you know, the Spartan race, put a date on the calendar.

That's the easiest form of accountability. It's going to happen. Because, okay, even if you do it two years from now, whatever date you have on that calendar, it's going to get closer and closer. And you may put it off for a while, but one day, that day is going to come where that race happens. And you're either going to perform or you're going to get your butt kicked.

And then you're going to realize, all right, like I got to get it together. So it's got to happen whether you want it to or not, like just picking that date. And even for myself, like I'd had that ultra marathon plan for like six months and I wasn't really training until it started getting closer. Closer, and I was like, I'm not prepared.

Like, I got to get this together, you know?

Okay. Yeah. So, you know, you kind of touched up on it a little bit, but like, what kind of advice would you give to people that like, you know, are, are still trying to find their voice. Right. And I'm wanting to talk about their hidden passions and also like, just try something new.

It's a great question. And I know it sounds stupid and simple. Well, maybe not stupid, but it sounds, you know, I think you're overthinking it, because I'm saying this to myself. Just, just try. Just do it. Because there's never going to be a right time to do it. There's never going to be a right day or moment.

Like, I'm sure you, you know, when you started your podcast, the same thing, probably Pat and his episodes, you know, was, was like, just pick a date, you know, four months from now, six months from now, six weeks from now, whatever, it doesn't matter. It's like, just commit to it, just whatever it is, make, just make your commitment today.

I'm going to start whenever you're going to start. Doesn't mean you have to start today. Although sooner, the better, just commit and just do it. And figure it out along the way, because you're never going to have all the information. You're never going to. Have it all figured out just you gotta start now like the first episode you record is gonna suck and that's okay The first exercise you do is gonna suck and that's okay like just keep going like I don't know like just give it a shot and Lower your expectations because you know, whatever you're doing for the first time.

It's not gonna be perfect and It shouldn't be because if it were, then, well, what have you been doing the whole time? You know, yeah, but so I don't know, just, just do it, I guess. And if you need inspiration from maybe, you know, what I did too, was an Instagram at least is you can find, you know, just search for other accounts.

You'll stumble across someone somewhere that's doing more or less what you want to do probably more than anything, because with the internet, you know, it's easier than ever to just. Put yourself out there, so, I mean, whatever you're into underwater basket, even if you type it in there, there's probably at least 1 other guy that's posted on Instagram about underwater back and basket weaving.

And then, you know, you guys connect and go, whatever, you know, so

right? So, moral of the story. Yeah, we've got to look into underwater basket weaving. That's

the thing. Yeah. There's as much as people talk about there's got to be like this whole like super elite group of underwater basket. Some way to make like, you know, underwater swan, you know, baskets and stuff, you know,

You know, but I love that.

Honestly, I think I think that's that's kind of the right way to go, right? Like Even, even too, as you talk about that, like, I think about, yeah, just doing this podcast and everything like it's, it's really just, you have to, have to try and start somewhere and, and on that too, you know, so how do you envision the process of becoming like, more authentic and like, opening up about the, the hidden aspects of your life and these hidden passions?

Like, what impact do you hope it'll have on, on you and those around you?

Yeah, so this has been tough. I'll be honest to slowly. To be more and more authentic because and I'll be honest too, because I don't want to share everything on the internet, you know what I'm saying? I don't post too much about my kids.

Cause I think about it. Like, unfortunately the world's a dark place and especially if I'm doing anti. Child human trafficking. I kind of don't really want to put my kids on the internet, you know, like This is just the way my mind works. It's because of like like i'm not ignorant But at the same time like I want to be wise I guess so I don't talk about Everything necessarily that pertains to me but I do try to be more vulnerable like my sobriety and talking about that on my episode and I talked about kind of like overcoming fears and doubts I just basically express my own fears and doubts of the same things that we just kind of talked about and like Being more human, I guess with your audience allows because everybody's fighting a battle that you know, nothing about like, I think I took that from Tim Ferriss.

We took it from someone else, but you, you just don't know what someone, no one else is perfect. No one else got to either like. The more real you are, the more people are going to understand. And if you go first to give someone else permission to go second, like if you just put yourself out there, that'll give someone else the courage like, okay, he admitted it.

He said it. So I'm not the only one. I'm not the only one screwed up. Like, no, that's the lie. We believe that we're the only one like, like, man. I've been meaning to, you know, start a podcast, or I've been meaning to quit drinking, you know, it's like now that he said it Oh great, because like this is a normal guy.

This isn't some, you know, crackhead, you know, like this is just a normal guy You know, whatever, you know, like the stigma or whatever and like, okay If he can't, I can't. I mean, I try to say that like look, I'm nothing special. Like I just Put forth the effort and, you know, I mean, I do have some skills, I guess, as far as, you know, I'm, I'm not as you know, some people may be more afraid to, you know, be on camera or something.

For example, like, that doesn't really bother me as much. And those, so I'm saying, like, some things I can use my strengths, I guess, and, you know, but at the same time, like, you know, if you don't do it, like, I'm not saying I love my voice either, but after you talk and you listen to enough of your own episodes, after, you know, recording and editing and stuff, you realize that I don't sound as.

Dumb as I think I sound, you know, and right and and besides like people aren't criticizing you as much as you are right? Like I don't know. I kind of feel like i'm brain dumping some stuff here. But no, it's great Yeah, I think it's I think it's just you know Once again, I just just start and you know, you don't have to be put your whole life out there as far as I tend to see, you know, you can just share parts of, you know, share your whole, I guess that's to go back to the original question and you can do it little by little.

You don't have to, you know, just throw everything out there. You know, I let little parts of my story, you know, come out and whatnot. And. You know, obviously, with wisdom, I don't share everything about, you know, what I do for work and all that stuff because it doesn't matter. It's none of your business, but but also, it's like, that's not really what I'm talking about here.

It's like, it's more of me versus, you know, I'm saying, does that make sense? No. Yeah, that

makes sense. And on that, you brought up a big point, right? Like, there's so much stigma around, like, when you talk about things sometimes, right? And especially when it comes to recovery. So Yeah. If you have any advice for people about, like, handling that stigma and wanting to talk about that, like, you know, what, what could you give them?

I know you said, like, just do it for some things, but, you know, what, what in the case of, what about in the case of, like, something that's a little more

sensitive like this? Yeah, I mean, if you know someone that's a good friend, I would say probably start there. And as far as sobriety specifically, I mean, that sewer guy podcast, he's, he's a really great inspiration.

His podcast, I, I highly recommend Shane Raymer, I'd, I'd reach out, you know, I'm sure he'd be glad to, he has a whole 30 day challenge and all kinds of other stuff on his website. So just as a, as a simple practical resource, but I would say just in general, yeah, probably. You know, you've got some close friend somewhere or maybe someone that, you know, it's already going through something or whatever.

And, you know, it's hard to find, you know, who's trusted. Right. But I think if you let a little information, you know, if you don't completely trust them and see what happens, you know, before they tell everybody and their friends, you know, then obviously, you know, you can't, but hopefully you have at least, you know, 1 other trusted person in your circle somewhere that you can reach out to about whatever it is, you know Yeah.

You know, but if you never tell anyone then, you know, there's nothing. I don't know. It's just Hidden it's not helpful Yeah, I, I

honestly, I love that. That was that's great. Yeah, it really has been thinking about, like, you know, the struggles what people go through, especially to when it comes down to recovering from something like this.

Not not what I expected the conversation to go, but I, I appreciate, you know, what you have to offer. I promise I'll let you go. So this is kind of the last thing I do right on the show. I would like to just kind of ask these random questions just to kind of like, take away from the seriousness of the conversation about, like, you know, the hidden part of your life and everything.

And just to kind of, you know, just cleanse the palate a little bit. Right? Oh, yeah. So the question I have for you today is what person would you want as your life coach and

motivator and why that's a deep question and tough. So the 1st person that just came to my mind was Ben Franklin. And obviously he's not alive anymore.

So it's, you know, it's a hypothetical question, right? But I've always been a fan of Ben Franklin because. We talked about this before. I think we recorded about all his curiosities. He was an ambassador to the us. I mean, he helped to fund the, or found the, you know, declaration of dependency.

Started a, the first basically fire club, or what, I mean, basically started the profession of, you know, firemen I guess 'cause libraries and stuff. You started to basically. Public library help found a university. I think you know, obviously all this science experiments with, you know, electricity and stuff at the kite and all that.

But he was also an avid swimmer and stuff. Like, people don't know about it. It's like all these random things that you're like, man. I would have loved to meet this guy. And so just like, how did he, you know, come from basically just a random guy that, you know, worked in his like brother and dad's like printing press office to, you know, write books and be an ambassador and swim and, and, you know, whatever, learned French and went to France and, you know, I just, and this was back in the 1700s, like, you know, like, yeah, I want to learn from that guy, you know?

So I don't know. That's just the first person I thought of because things he did cool. It's like, yeah. So interesting. I would have never guessed, but like, yeah, Benjamin

Franklin, what a guy. Well, honestly, a hundred dollar bill. I mean, dude, right? Yeah. For something. Right. Yeah. Thank you so much today. I honestly appreciate the conversation.

You know, can you just talk about, you know, where people could find you if they want to, you know, learn a little bit more about the, or running like any, anything

like that? Yeah, so, well, thanks for having me on. It's been honored. It was really fun. I really enjoyed it. Be happy to do something like this again, or I would love to have you on if you, if you want to but Yerba Mate Power is on Instagram.

So, like, at Yerba Mate Power. And got YouTube there too. It's it's about all I'm working with there. And the Yerba Power podcast is the podcast, which is streaming everywhere. Most people are either Apple or Spotify, but you can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. So if you feel. What if you want to send me a message at any time, probably the most active on the Instagram of your Monday power, as far as like.

Responding to messages and whatnot, so feel free to message me there. I don't mind that YouTube. I mean, I. I don't really know how to connect with people like, I don't you can't really message, you know, so that'd probably be the best thing. And then of course, I guess if anybody's. Wants to be, I guess, you know, just reach out to me.

I don't think anybody's welcome. So,

awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for tuning in to The Bottom Left Pane. If you enjoyed our journey into the unseen stories today, don't forget to follow us on social media at Bottom Left Pane on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram. You can subscribe to our show on any platform where you get your podcasts to ensure you never miss an episode.

And, if you're interested in supporting the production of our show, consider checking out our Patreon. Even a contribution as little as a dollar a month can make a huge difference. Thank you for your support and for joining us in uncovering the hidden chapters of life. And remember, sometimes the most profound stories are the ones we've never heard before.

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